Discover a powerful new approach to diversity, equity, and inclusion. NLI's DEI Impact Case goes beyond the traditional moral and business arguments, offering a science-based, actionable framework to achieve lasting cultural transformation. In this webinar, you'll learn: The limitations of focusing solely on DEI as a moral or business imperative. How NLI's Impact Case drives results through targeted action at the individual, team, and organizational levels. The neuroscience and behavioral principles underpinning this transformative approach.
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Shelby Wilburn: Welcome back to another week of your brain at work. Live! I'm your host, Shelby Wilburn, for our regulars. We're happy to have you back. And for our newcomers, we're excited to have you here with us today. For the first time
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Shelby Wilburn: in this episode we're going to explore a powerful new approach to diversity, equity, and inclusion. Nli's Dei impact case goes beyond traditional moral and business arguments offering a science-based, actionable framework to achieve lasting cultural transformation.
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Shelby Wilburn: Now, as I quickly share some housekeeping notes, drop in the comments, or our chat box where you're joining in from today.
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Shelby Wilburn: we are recording today's session. So if you're interested in a replay, be on the lookout for an email later today that email is going to include a survey for feedback as well as a number of resources that are aligned to today's conversation. We suggest putting your phone on do not disturb and quitting out of your email and messaging apps. So you can get the most out of today's show. And it's also going to help with your audio and video quality. And we love interaction. So feel free to share your thoughts and comments with us in the chat.
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Shelby Wilburn: Now, to get this show underway, I'm going to introduce our speakers.
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Shelby Wilburn: Our first guest for today is a director at the Neuro Leadership Institute, where she helps clients achieve goals through targeted research and measurement design.
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Shelby Wilburn: Prior to joining and Nli, she applied inclusion research to develop leader tools to improve military force, readiness. She holds a master's in public health and a Ph. D. In community psychology, a warm welcome to the Director of Research Design at Nli. Dr. Bridget Lynn.
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Shelby Wilburn: Thanks for being here today, Bridget.
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Brigid Lynn, Ph.D, MPH: Thank you.
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Shelby Wilburn: Our next guest is a senior consultant and facilitator at the New Leadership Institute. He has 15 years of experience, designing and delivering transformative learning experiences for organizations in the public and private sectors. He has delivered speaking engagements for companies like Disney, Pixar and Linkedin, as well as many colleges and universities across the Us.
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Shelby Wilburn: Before joining and Li. He spent the decade as a strategist and consultant in the Dei space. He's passionate about creating experiences that are interactive, deeply reflective, rooted in science and highly engaging. Please join me in welcoming senior consultant and facilitator, Travis Jones. Thanks for being here today, Travis.
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Travis Jones (he/him): Thanks, Shelby, looking forward to it.
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Shelby Wilburn: Yes, and our moderator. For today, with a long history of driving change and building cultures in large complex organizations, has given her deep expertise around Dei practices and principles, especially in the area of communications. In fact, she broke barriers as one of the first, and for a long time only, Black Sea level speechwriters in the Fortune 100.
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Shelby Wilburn: Her 3 Ted presentations challenging business to get serious about inclusion, have collectively over 2.5 million views. Her superpowers, applying neuroscience to solve Dei challenges, building actual Dei frameworks and brokering honest Dei conversations among top leaders. Please join me in welcoming analyze global head of Dei Janet M. Stone. Great to have you here today, Janet, and I'm passing it over to you.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: Thank you, Shelby. Hello! Everybody thrilled to be here, and we're back.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: So thank you for joining us.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: and we're very excited about what we're going to talk about today, and we're introducing something. We're excited about it. We put a lot of work into it, and we're glad that we get to share it with you.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: So a few weeks ago, the 3 of us got together on the same, the same place, and we want to talk about a new way forward for diversity, equity, and inclusion amid all the chaos that's going on right now.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: Our goal was to provide some clarity kind of cut through the noise, and if you want to see that when there's they're gonna drop a link in the chat to it. So we hope you look back on it. But you don't need to see that one to see this.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: But we did promise that we come back, and we talk about how you know eyes.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: You know individually how we're
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Janet Stovall, CDE: we get
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Janet Stovall, CDE: getting clarity with a new approach to do I? And we promised a white paper about that approach. So today we're gonna talk about what it's all about, and we're gonna drop a link at the end of this for that white paper unless you watched last time. And you asked for an early copy. If you did, you probably got it this morning.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: It's still early. It's not not as early as we thought, but it's still early, so we hope that you will enjoy the paper. And, Lexa, the end will tell you all about it.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: But let's start with talking about why we needed to have a new case for Dei. In the first place.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: I'm going to start with a quick history lesson to sort of explain why we got here, how we're here and what? Why we needed this new case.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: The 1960 s, that's when the modern Dei movement traces back to it was the Civil Rights movement. Marginalized groups were demanding equal rights and representation and the Civil Rights Act of 1964 kind of usured Dei.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: It is
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Janet Stovall, CDE: to the workplace.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: That's before I saw them release. It was restorative. It talked about the right thing to do, fast forward to the 70 s. We started hearing the changing demographics argument. You know, the world is changing, business has to keep up, but it tied diversity, diversity alone to outcomes, namely, the idea was more diversity, more success.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: That's a business case. It's adaptive. It's a smart thing to do. And what we know is that both of these cases are linked. They're inexorably linked.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: Neither of them is wrong, but neither is enough
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Janet Stovall, CDE: as well. There's still a lot of disparity in terms of representation in terms of pay, in terms of everything, and there's still a lot of correlative stats out there about return on investment. But there's actually very little fiscal proof
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Janet Stovall, CDE: as a result, and we're seeing that result right now. Dei has been wide open to criticism. It's been seen as expendable. And oh, the pushback we live in that right now, basically, when the going gets tough, the Dei gets gone. I actually wrote about that in a recent blog post about the fall of the house office of Dei.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: They're dropping that in the chat, too.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: So we decided that it's time for a new approach, one that combines the best of both cases, one that is science-based, that's supported by empirical evidence, one that makes sense for business in a capitalistic society.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: Enter Nl, I's Dei Impact case.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: It accepts that in a capitalistic economy where business exists really to do only 2 things, make money or save money.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: The Dei has to prove its value to the bottom line.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: It acknowledges that in order to unlock that value, diversity has to be leveraged through inclusion, and it has to be sustained with equity, and finally, it argues that doing both is possible. If we change our perspective, if we change from seeing diversity as a problem to solve, from inclusion, as fee, as feeling valued, and equity as fair people. If we change and see diversity as a problem, solver inclusion as delivering value and equity as fair systems.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: we believe it's transformative. We believe it's the effective thing to do.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: We believe it's about moving bodies in the building.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: 2 brains in the business.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: and it differs from the other 2 cases in 3 major ways. Let's talk about the first one.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: It is realistic.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: It operates on Nlsa's proven behavior change model, which we call Ph.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: PHS. Stands for priorities, habits, and systems. And those are the 3 things it lays those out that you have to focus on. If you wanted to transform a whole organization.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: Well, we decided to map Dei to PHS. Because Ph is about things you can actually do. So much of Dei talks about things we wanna do. We don't know how to do it. And so therefore it just doesn't get done.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: But for Dei, if you want to do something
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Janet Stovall, CDE: a call score prioritizing diversity by aligning it with goals, not just good intentions.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: It talks about habituating inclusion with training, tools and solutions that change behavior, not beliefs.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: And it's about systemizing equity institutionally, not as an inspiration.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: The impact case is actionable. It's not aspirational.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: And that's important because Dei is not going away, no matter how hard some people try wrote about that too, recently.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: So I've started off talking and give me the first reason why I was different. I'm gonna turn it over to Travis and Bridget, and I'm a hush for a minute and let them tell you a little bit about the other 2 ways is different.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: Travis.
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Travis Jones (he/him): Alright. Thank you, Janet, and Hello, everyone! Welcome back if you're returning from somewhat of an encore session and welcome to folks that are in dialogue with us 3 for the first time. Similar to the last time that we met. We really wanna kind of use this space to be as collaborative as possible. So I already see lots of energy in the chat. We wanna encourage you to kind of
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Travis Jones (he/him): keep sending us questions and thoughts. Not only will you get access at the end of the session to our white paper, which is a much deeper dive than what we're gonna present to you today we do wanna kind of get your live feedback. So we'll be kind of asking you questions and for feedback but feel free to use the chat as kind of a collaborative space to drop in questions. We got a team of folks that will be looking out for those
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Travis Jones (he/him): and you know just kind of your running commentary. So already, you know, I love Tracy says, Wow, this is great framing. Dr. Stovall. And and I love that kind of language of framing cause, you know, in just a moment right now, and in the next slide
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Travis Jones (he/him): Dr. Bridget Lynn, my other brilliant colleague will be kind of walking you through what we think of as scientific frameworks, theoretical frameworks, and the the beauty of a framework is, it does kind of set your mind cognitively to think about particular issues from a certain kind of way. And actually, that's what you're looking at here. So this is one of the ways that we think the impact cases unique.
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Travis Jones (he/him): So, as Janet just said, the aim of the Ph model is how to transform entire organizations. That's a pretty high task, right? Especially the work that we do with our habit solutions at Nli. That is the aim to transform organizations in the consulting work that we do, we take an organizational level lens, even if it might seem like an isolated problem.
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Travis Jones (he/him): Alright. So what are you looking at here. These are basically what sociologists or social psychologists call levels of analysis. And I won't get into all you know from from academia, how these are different, depending on disciplines that's not relevant for us today. The usefulness of a level of analysis is that it takes seriously
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Travis Jones (he/him): that human beings as deeply social. Our behavior differs, depending on the groups that we're in
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Travis Jones (he/him): the size of those groups who we are in those groups. And so think about these levels of analysis as tools that help us be really strategic when we think about the taking seriously the potential of the impact case for Dei
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Travis Jones (he/him): and so you know it notoriously. Organizations that are not doing Dei well tend to treat it as an isolated issue separate from the the organization itself.
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Travis Jones (he/him): To give you some more practical examples of how this might work. If you think about phs again, as the work of prioritizing diversity.
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Travis Jones (he/him): celebrating differences, thinking deeply about differences. What is the role of diversity at work.
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Travis Jones (he/him): habits taking seriously not just our feelings of inclusion, but the habits of inclusion.
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Travis Jones (he/him): All the way to the levels of of our systems.
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Travis Jones (he/him): So you know, to to kind of make this more real life. When we're working with a team of senior leaders. For example, we are interested in helping them think about what are the differences on your leadership team?
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Travis Jones (he/him): That can help you solve unique business problems
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Travis Jones (he/him): very different than on a one. On one coaching engagement, for example, where we're dealing with, you know, a single individual, and we're asking them to reflect deeply kind of cultivating self-awareness on their unique differences that are assets in their leadership. Toolkit
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Travis Jones (he/him): which is also different, but related to when we might do an organization, wide intervention on psychological safety, you know, that affects every team
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Travis Jones (he/him): within an organization.
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Travis Jones (he/him): And the last thing I'll say is as kind of a handoff to to Bridget is that I? One of the things I love about this model is that and you're gonna see it all come together kind of in a single slide here in a bit. But each of these levels of analysis is also supported by a respective scientific framework.
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Travis Jones (he/him): And so you'll see that as we work through those. So, Bridget, I'll I'll turn it over to you to get us started on what these scientific frameworks are, and why they're so effective for helping us make real change. In organizations.
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Brigid Lynn, Ph.D, MPH: Awesome. Thank you.
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Brigid Lynn, Ph.D, MPH: And just gonna echo the sentiments. I'm really excited to be here. We've worked really hard. I love working with Janet and Travis. The thoughtfulness and intention that goes into our work is really motivating and inspiring and energizing. So I'm happy to be here again.
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Brigid Lynn, Ph.D, MPH: So I'm going to talk about the third reason, which is analyze, Dei impact case is scientific. That's another reason why it's unique.
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Brigid Lynn, Ph.D, MPH: So the underpinning science informing this Dei Impact case is related to our holistic approach as Travis mentioned and was talking through
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Brigid Lynn, Ph.D, MPH: in this previous slide. And basically, what we're saying is that we understand that individuals have to work together under specific conditions. And that's why each of these sciences are so important. And so I'm gonna talk briefly, about the first 2 that you see there, neuroscience and generative interactivity, and how they influence our thinking. And then I'll hand it back over to Travis to talk through complexity science.
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Brigid Lynn, Ph.D, MPH: So starting with neuroscience, really, we think about neuroscience is helping us understand how the brain functions. So we can work to activate desired habits that support Dei efforts. So in essence, what you get with neuroscience is a brain based blueprint for creating workplaces that support positive habits.
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Brigid Lynn, Ph.D, MPH: It helps you identify obstacles to change, and also how to reward and reinforce the behaviors that you're ultimately looking to get to.
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Brigid Lynn, Ph.D, MPH: And here's how that happens.
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Brigid Lynn, Ph.D, MPH: So neuroscience helps us understand why people may be more willing to try specific behavior over another one.
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Brigid Lynn, Ph.D, MPH: And it also helps us understand how people can engage effectively in the new behavior. So why am I doing this new behavior? And then how can I do it effectively? And so really, concepts, like motivation and bias are essential to explore. When you're thinking about that. And then neuroscience also helps increase the likelihood that the behaviors that are activated through our solutions
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Brigid Lynn, Ph.D, MPH: turn into everyday habits, and those then lead to transformational change. So that's really thinking through. Okay, I have this new behavior
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Brigid Lynn, Ph.D, MPH: that I wanna engage in. But how do I make it? My default? How do I make it? That habit that I go to and here concepts like threat and reward responses, and in group and out group are important to understand.
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Brigid Lynn, Ph.D, MPH: And then, finally, neuroscience helps us understand that it's really easier for our brain to build a new connection rather than rewire an old one.
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Brigid Lynn, Ph.D, MPH: So at analy, we really try to avoid changing habits. And we really think about, how do you identify ideal new behaviors, and then teach people how to engage in those new behaviors. To create those habits. And.
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Brigid Lynn, Ph.D, MPH: as Janet says, and I love this at Nli, we don't really stop bad habits, we start better ones. And I think that's an important thing to keep in mind in our work.
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Brigid Lynn, Ph.D, MPH: and some things that help that are really important. With neuroscience is understanding how environmental queues either facilitate
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Brigid Lynn, Ph.D, MPH: or inhibit the formation of new habits. And that's one way we can really help organizations achieve change. Now, neuroscience is focused primarily at the individual level. But we know individuals have to work together to get things done. And that's really where generative interactivity comes in.
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Brigid Lynn, Ph.D, MPH: And so generative interactivity is about
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Brigid Lynn, Ph.D, MPH: how teams work in our personally, it's all about our daily interactions at work. These are the behaviors and habits that can simultaneously reduce bias while increasing the benefits of inclusion and the primary characteristics of habits that lead to generative interactivity
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Brigid Lynn, Ph.D, MPH: really have some things in common. And here are some of those things that you know are important and should be thought about included. But this is not an exhaustive list by any means. But really, these behaviors have to have a shared goal. So this is important for everyone to kind of understand we're in it together. We're all aiming for the same thing.
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Brigid Lynn, Ph.D, MPH: It's also important for people to be able to come together repeatedly and frequently over time.
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Brigid Lynn, Ph.D, MPH: So it's not just like one off events. It's like, no, we actually work together on a regular basis.
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Brigid Lynn, Ph.D, MPH: Another piece of this that's so important is that all the contributions that are made to something happening.
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Brigid Lynn, Ph.D, MPH: that there's equal value and equal standing in those contributions. So even thinking about this today to come here to the your brain at work, live. There are so many people involved in making this happen that if any little piece isn't there, then it doesn't come together. So all of us, whether we're on screen or behind the screen, it's important to understand that those all those contributions are equal.
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Brigid Lynn, Ph.D, MPH: And then there's a bit of this collaboration and task interdependence. So when we come together, it's important that we understand that what I do is related to what you do and together is how we make it work.
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Brigid Lynn, Ph.D, MPH: And then a piece of that interpersonal comfort and self efficacy which really is related to I understand that you know my value, and I know that I'm able to do these things alongside of. Hey? I can speak up and say something if it's not going well, or I have like a challenge or something to bring up.
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Brigid Lynn, Ph.D, MPH: So these characteristics really are focused.
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Brigid Lynn, Ph.D, MPH: really focused in on how people work together and how working together in a specific way creates fair and inclusive workplaces, and these are essential for the benefits of diverse teams to be actualized.
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Brigid Lynn, Ph.D, MPH: And so generative interactivity is definitely related to complexity. Science, which guides our work because our work really is all about organizational settings. So I'm gonna hand over to Travis to talk a bit about complexity science. But I also saw you come off mute, Janet.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: You know, I was gonna jump in there. Somebody dropped an interesting question in the chat, and they asked why the term generative
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Brigid Lynn, Ph.D, MPH: I.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: And I know that we didn't go deep into it here. But we did. We did pick that for a reason. So either you, Travis, who knows this deeply? Would you answer that question for us.
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Brigid Lynn, Ph.D, MPH: Absolutely. So I'll start. And then, Travis, you you jump into so part of this idea of it being generative. And this is gonna go a bit into the complexity science piece as well is that there is something that
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Brigid Lynn, Ph.D, MPH: comes together to generate, something new to create something new. And I I almost just about Pinky, swear to Janet. We wouldn't say emergence. But I'm gonna use it. So it's this idea that when you come together, something new is generated and something new emerges.
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Brigid Lynn, Ph.D, MPH: and so I think that's an important part of this generative interactivity. So when Janet Travis and I came together to think about these things. No one of us could have come together with the idea. Completely. It took all of us building on each other's idea to get there.
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Brigid Lynn, Ph.D, MPH: Travis, what would you add to that?
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Travis Jones (he/him): Yeah, no, I I appreciate the question. And I I feel like I wanna back up and say for folks that missed the first session. So much of our work really came from us trying to on our small team, embody a lot of these principles and values that we are reading and studying, and I gotta give credit. I love that somebody addressed you as Dr. Stovall. I think I'm just gonna start addressing you that
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Travis Jones (he/him): cause. I I always try to give Janet props what I can. But one thing she's probably never heard me say is that I came out of Academia. She's not formally trained as an academic, but she she has the most like scientific instincts of of any of the academics that I know. So a lot of this work is really kind of her brilliance and and instincts about taking everything off the table and saying, what do we mean when we say, diversity.
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Travis Jones (he/him): what do we mean when we say diversity as a value to an organization? What do we mean by inclusion? And so, you know, at Ni, we love to nerd out. I love that. I get to work with trained academics like, you know, Dr. Bridget Lynn. And so we get to like
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Travis Jones (he/him): dive into the research to take these things seriously on a very empirical scientific level. So I say all that to say generative generative interactivity is part of this larger body of work around cultures of inclusion. And it's scholars who say, well, we all say that diversity is great for innovation, for you know, new insights for challenging thinking. But how?
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Travis Jones (he/him): And that's at least from my perspective, where academia has a lot of work to do. And just as another shout out, bridget actually has published work on cultures of inclusion that basically say, inclusion is not just a subjective feeling of of, I feel welcomed to your belonging, but it has just as much to do with the habits of interaction.
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Travis Jones (he/him): And so this particular theory is part of that broader work moving away, or I should say, in addition to inclusion, as a feeling to inclusion, as interaction habits. What makes this kind of theory unique?
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Travis Jones (he/him): Last thing I'll say, because you invited me to nerd out a little bit, Janet, but we promised you we'd make the connection between the moral case and the business case.
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Travis Jones (he/him): What this theory provides is this idea that when you focus on collaborative habits among people
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Travis Jones (he/him): versus trying to change their hearts and minds, what you actually get is more collaborative, inclusive and equitable work cultures. And that's kind of the idea. I mean, when we get to complexity science.
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Travis Jones (he/him): To use Bridget's, you know, term emergence. This is taking seriously that when human beings come together and we collaborate and interact
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Travis Jones (he/him): the potential to create things that are larger than what we could do as individuals. Is there, and this is kind of the habits to get us there. Yeah.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: Let me just ask if there's a question that came in. They said. From Adania. Adania hope I'm pronounced that correctly, but she says, you know, as nurse can try and define it. But, more importantly, what do regular people think Dei is? That's a very good question. And I did a Linkedin post a while ago that I didn't expect to go viral. And I swore I would not use de
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Janet Stovall, CDE: yeah anymore, because it that term has been weaponized, and if we were to say diversity, equity, inclusion, it'd be really clear what each one of those things is, and one of the things about
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Janet Stovall, CDE: generative act, interactivity. We talk about us as individuals working together and coming up with new things. I think the challenge with that term Dei, and with the fact that we've kind of conflated those 3 words in our head is that we don't think often about the what the individual contributions and needs and requirements. Of each one of those individual things is so you're right. We do nerd out about it a little bit, but
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Janet Stovall, CDE: we could benefit
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Janet Stovall, CDE: from doing a lot more explaining to people about how these individual things come together, which means we have to disaggregate it a little bit. And then I'm gonna turn it back over to Travis. But it's funny when I think about generative, indirect activity. It truly is the way we work together on this team.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: And I think about even my kids growing up. You know, when I had one of them getting in trouble, there's one thing, but when the other one came along. It could teach the other one new stuff to get into trouble. They came up with all kinds of different things to come up to do in trouble. We do the same thing. Each of us bring something to it, and it is generative. So we generate new ideas. So that's why we love that science when we found it, we just
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Janet Stovall, CDE: to be like, Oh, they have a word for this. And when we looked at how it worked in organizations, we realized that that is truly
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Janet Stovall, CDE: the power of Dei. Because if you think about it, if you're all the same.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: you're gonna generate something new. But think about the power of being a bunch of different people, bringing what you bring to a situation bringing to an organization. And if organizations can find a way to tap into that to value it. You know we say we value it, but to truly value it, the way we value things in a capitalist society.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: and then find ways to channel
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Janet Stovall, CDE: that what gets generated into actual practice.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: it really could make a difference within organizations. And we believe that understanding that is critical. So now I'm going to turn over to Travis so he can do the complexity stuff.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: Hmm!
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Travis Jones (he/him): No, I I appreciate that. And I wanna echo Danya, I appreciate that us nerds can try and define it. But, more importantly, what do regular people think Dei is? And I think you've just put your finger on our challenge at Ni. We wanna be experts that are deeply grounded in the science and at the same time we, one of our guiding principles is, make it simple.
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Travis Jones (he/him): You know, we use like this space to kind of open up the pull the curtain back, and invite you all into all the science that goes behind our thinking, our consulting solutions, our habit solutions but you'll see here when we kind of bring this all together. The the version that our clients might see right? We're not gonna go into like the history of complexity, science, and bring in physics and all this complicated stuff?
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Travis Jones (he/him): But to some degree the idea is to challenge our frameworks that become kind of everyday language. For folks. So complexity, science is definitely an area of research where we could get incredibly technical. We'll kind of like, leave that to you all if you wanna nudge us that way. But base the general idea here is that we're kind of drawing on lots of people that say.
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Travis Jones (he/him): you know, let's take seriously what an organization is. And an organization is essentially a collection of human beings. And so a lot of complexity scientists. Which there are neuroscientists that look at how our brains are much more like complex systems networks.
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Travis Jones (he/him): There are scholars that look at teams and say that teams actually the best way to understand what a team is as this highly connected evolving adaptive system.
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Travis Jones (he/him): And then, if an organization is a collection of lots of different teams and departments and units and social groups. Then an organization can be seen as this complex
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Travis Jones (he/him): adaptive system.
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Travis Jones (he/him): So more than like defining it. I wanted to, because we've got some time here. I'm curious from all of you, and I'll tie this back to complexity science.
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Travis Jones (he/him): What would you say are the just several things that come top of mind that your organizations are thinking about in the external environment.
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Travis Jones (he/him): I'll leave it as general as that. So
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Travis Jones (he/him): what? Maybe social movements, what
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Travis Jones (he/him): kind of economic factors, what are kind of your people dealing with in your organizations or industries?
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Travis Jones (he/him): What are senior leaders being asked to address
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Travis Jones (he/him): in the outside world.
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Travis Jones (he/him): No, right or wrong, answers just kind of fill up the chat. I mean, what? What external factors in the Socio political, economic environment are shaping work.
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Travis Jones (he/him): And I'll give you just several moments here.
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Travis Jones (he/him): Polarization perceive values.
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Travis Jones (he/him): crime rates
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Travis Jones (he/him): Dei push back in our previous session. We kind of surveyed you all similarly, like, what are you all feeling in terms of pushback? And inevitably some organizations and industries are like, we're forging ahead. In fact, we've doubled down our Dei efforts. Other folks shared with us that, you know there's a lot of fear there's a lot of retreat. There's a lot of kind of quiet Dei work.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: You know this is
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Janet Stovall, CDE: There is somebody mentioned, the
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Janet Stovall, CDE: protester having on campuses. Even now
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Janet Stovall, CDE: I don't know about you, but every time every morning I get up is like is something new. What fresh hell is this? And so we are trying to do work that was difficult before things got more difficult. You know, we try. This work has been difficult.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: it's been a challenge even before 2020.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: It's been a challenge before we got so politically polarized. It's a bigger challenge. Now. We were kind of going back and forth a little bit in the chat about weaponization
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Janet Stovall, CDE: to me. That is why we have to
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Janet Stovall, CDE: when we do this work be very what it is we're trying to do, and it's
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Janet Stovall, CDE: my brain has always been around.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: I'll never want to argue with anybody about what the right thing to do is because that is very subjective. There are plenty of people who think that the work that we're doing here is not
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Janet Stovall, CDE: thing to do.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: Camp nonprofit environment. If I if that's if that's what we're focused on. But in corporate America, in in a capitalist society. You are never gonna win that argument. And if you look at the 2 cases, my question is always well, how's that worked out for us. So
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Janet Stovall, CDE: my personal impetus for looking into this and I have the resources of Nli
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Janet Stovall, CDE: can help do that, was to say.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: the only leap of faith I want to take
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Janet Stovall, CDE: is to say that I believe diversity has value. That's a leap of faith you have to, it is, and you got all the stats out there from the Mckenzies of the world that you know. Tell you. You know, organizations that are more diverse or 35% more profitable. They're all correlative because we have not done the work to really tie
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Janet Stovall, CDE: diversity to
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Janet Stovall, CDE: business outcomes. That's what this was about. I mean, I know that I was tired of having that argument. And so when the 3 of us got together realized, we're all kind of tired of hearing that having that argument, and we wanted to find as much as possible
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Janet Stovall, CDE: an objective way to do that. So that's what this has been about for us, and being able to define what we really mean when we say people feel valued. What does that mean? Cause I could feel valued one day and feel like trash the next day. It depends on who I'm talking to. It depends on what I'm working on. It depends on how people respond to me. But if I can define within a context.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: In this case, the business context. What value means, then I can measure it.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: I can be real clear from a performance, evaluation standpoint, what it is, and that's what this case is about. It is saying that we believe
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Janet Stovall, CDE: that. Yes, Dei, diversity has value in business, and we believe that if you want to extract that value, you have to build welcoming and inclusive
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Janet Stovall, CDE: environments to get it. So to us this is the best of all of that put into one place, but with the intention
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Janet Stovall, CDE: approving that it works.
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Travis Jones (he/him): Thanks, Janet. So I think I'll say I mean, I think that's a good segue. So I guess back to kind of why complexity, science. And again, we started like really ground level. What is it that makes human beings unique.
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Travis Jones (he/him): similar to other living systems in the living world? You know, ants form colonies and birds form flocks
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Travis Jones (he/him): school of fish form schools. That's probably our projection. But what about human beings? And we know that human beings are deeply social, right? We have starting family bonds, but we also have social groups. And then societies. And the reason I asked you all to share what all are your organizations juggling?
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Travis Jones (he/him): And if you haven't already scroll and look at at kind of what everybody is sharing. Organizations themselves are part of much larger systems and as much as we might try to, you know. Think about Dei through this isolated lens, or we think about our organizations as well. You know, we don't talk about those things here. We don't address those, or
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Travis Jones (he/him): it doesn't make our work any easier. But the reality is, we are complicated systems and organizations
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Travis Jones (he/him): highly connected.
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Travis Jones (he/him): If you all have been a part of a merger, for example, or you've helped an organization go through a merger, you know it wasn't as simple as just 2 separate parts coming together right? There was complexity in those merging of cultural values and personalities and leadership styles. And so we think there's a lot of value in thinking about organizations as complex systems.
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Travis Jones (he/him): But more kind of relevant to our point about the impact case is that complexity. Science gives us this framework to take seriously what we always say about diversity is a real value. And one of our lines that we share a lot in our our team to challenge conventional wisdom.
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Travis Jones (he/him): This is another Janet line. I think somebody already said I'd I'd want to put that on a T-shirt or something.
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Travis Jones (he/him): but it helps us move from thinking about diversity as a problem to solve.
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Travis Jones (he/him): to diversity, solving real problems. And so complexity. Science is full of examples that the more diversity in a system, the more resilient that system will be.
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Travis Jones (he/him): the more adaptive that system will be, the more effective. That system will be right. Think about a rainforest compared to a desert, for example.
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Travis Jones (he/him): And so there's lots that we could say about how complexity science is a useful framework for taking seriously when we're on a single team, which is a complex system, what is, what are the diversities? What are the differences on that team that can be leveraged and tapped to solve some business challenge.
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Travis Jones (he/him): There's a a couple of different resources. I'll I'll shout out to you. One is, it's not complicated. The art and science of complexity and business. That's Dr. Rick, nason. And he basically says we need to shift from thinking about businesses as complicated problems to complex
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Travis Jones (he/him): systems. And another kind of analogy. Maybe if you're like, well, this is getting really theoretical A complicated problem is one where there's a solution at the end and always a right answer. And if you just get the pieces together, then you can solve it.
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Travis Jones (he/him): So building a plane is a complicated problem.
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Travis Jones (he/him): Flying a plane is a complex problem.
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Travis Jones (he/him): because pilots are always taking into account all of these different
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Travis Jones (he/him): atmospheres, and I'm not a pilot or know anything about aviation but fun fact. There's a scientific American article that actually says, given all of our high levels of physics. The best scientists in the world can't explain exactly how even a plane stays in the air.
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Travis Jones (he/him): It is incredibly complex phenomena, and we like to think that Dei is that complex. Now, we don't obviously want to leave you all and leave ourselves with this idea that it's incredibly complex.
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Travis Jones (he/him): One of the beauties of complexity. Science is that complexity is built from simple habits over time.
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Travis Jones (he/him): Think about any complex system in the natural world.
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Travis Jones (he/him): If you take a single leaf, for example, it's complex. But you'll see there's a pattern that scientists call fractal patterns. A leaf is made up of simple patterns over time multiple leaves, then make up the trees that we see. But they are really similar patterns repeated over time that give us complexity, and we wanna tap into that to say, what are those patterns of behavior for humans that can create
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Travis Jones (he/him): belonging psychological safety, deeper collaboration, you know, innovative problems?
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Travis Jones (he/him): So I told you, we bring this all together.
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Travis Jones (he/him): and I'll I'll kind of catch up in the chat and like defer to the team if I'm moving too fast or too slow here. But let's go to the next slide. Just so you can see us kind of put all of this together.
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Travis Jones (he/him): Can we go back? One?
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Travis Jones (he/him): Yeah, thanks, Bridget. Okay, so here it is. I'll give you a moment to reflect. I don't think we do enough of that
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Travis Jones (he/him): on these sometimes.
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Travis Jones (he/him): So what you see, is our Ph model, which is our kind of philosophy of change in organizations
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Travis Jones (he/him): mapped onto these different levels that we said, you know that we talked about can be useful. For what kind of engagement are we talking about diversity on the individual level, on the team level, you know, at the organization level?
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Travis Jones (he/him): And then these are the kind of corroborating or supporting sciences behind each one.
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Travis Jones (he/him): We could say much more about these. But if you think, if we take the brain seriously. And this is kind of all of you know Nli's work. If you're familiar with our scarf model, for example, or our seeds model that talks about different biases. One of the biggest things that gets in the way of us. Understanding and prioritizing differences are the ways that our minds are wired
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Travis Jones (he/him): to filter in some information, to filter out, others, to latch onto similar life experiences to us, and and ignore or be unaware of experiences outside of our perception.
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Travis Jones (he/him): When we habituate inclusion, this is like our bread and butter at Ni. How can we move to really cultivate those habits that tap into the potential of diversity.
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Travis Jones (he/him): and none of that is possible. If we don't create these systems of equity where those
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Travis Jones (he/him): generative interactions, those habits of inclusion, are possible.
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Travis Jones (he/him): And that starts to get into the the work that we do, especially on our consulting team. With, you know, thinking about equitable policies and practices and organizations. Freeing up essentially people to do this magical thing that we do like, Bridget said, called emergence. When we come together and create things larger and greater and better than we could have as individuals. You can see at the top. This is, basically our what we do W. What we think.
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Travis Jones (he/him): take pride in doing it at all. I is making this simple. You know what this looks like in in a really kind of provocative and and catchy way as it interrupt bias.
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Travis Jones (he/him): integrate inclusion and invoke
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Travis Jones (he/him): systems.
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Travis Jones (he/him): You all have been able to see just a little bit of kind of what all is behind those habits. But this is why we think this this framework is really kind of useful for doing lots of kinds of work with Dei and organizations. So I'll stop there. I'll either turn it over to you
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Travis Jones (he/him): Janet or team. Let me know if there's things that we should address here, before moving forward.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: Well, the question is, shall we move to explain? And I'm gonna try to talk a little bit slower, so that maybe if I cut out. You catch my words, cause I do talk fast.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: Let's talk about this in action, because nobody I haven't been able to keep totally up with the chat. But I'm sure somebody is probably thinking, Okay, the science is great. What does that look like on the ground? What does that look like in action. Well, we do believe in science. And so that's why the impact case is about science. But applied science is when we take all the empirical evidence that's in that science, and we use it for practical purpose. So we've built a strategy for this. It's called our business driven Dei strategy.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: Now, the methods. You'll see the slide is the very high level of it. But the methods you'll see are things we already
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Janet Stovall, CDE: to things consulting team has been doing for years successfully. But we took things and said, Now, how is this different? If you're doing this for an organization that's trying to do something with diversity, equity and inclusion. It's going to be different. Because you're talking about people you're talking about systemic inequity. You're talking about a lot of things that somebody said in the chat we don't wanna talk about in business.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: We knew that we had to take these tried and true practices
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Janet Stovall, CDE: when you're not talking about something that's subjective and find a way to tweak them, change them.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: deal with them differently in this area. And so that's what we did, because we knew the methods worked. Let's see if we can make them work. Oh, you know, on something else. So we've been doing this successfully, we believe this is gonna work. So now we've customized them. And this is 4 part structured framework. That's our business driven Dei strategy.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: Now, right now we are looking for a few good organizations that want to be beta partners on this. We are just starting on this path. We got the theory down. We wanna make it practice. We wanna tackle some real world scenarios
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Janet Stovall, CDE: and some real world problems, because we want feedback to help us improve this solution. And we want thought partners. I'd said earlier that, you know I've been reading the stats forever that you see out there. But very few people have actually tried to figure out how to go belong beyond the correlative to the causative.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: We're fine with being first at that. We're we're fine with leading the charge on that. And we believe that this is one way that we can do that. So we're gonna document, whatever we do, we're gonna get, you know, our our facts, our realities out there. And so any anybody that disagreed with us. We're hoping to be part of that process of 2. We we wanna be pioneers in this.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: And so we're gonna keep the beta to about 5 companies. And we're gonna be very intentional about what industry cause you want to broad
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Janet Stovall, CDE: look at it. What size? What problem is it trying to solve? So if you decide that if you wanna be part of this Beta and I'll tell you at the end how you can do that don't feel like we don't love you. If we don't choose you, it's because we are trying to be very controlled about how we bring, how we make this real and how we bring it to to market and all that. So. But if you're interested, now is the time to let us know
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Janet Stovall, CDE: and like, I said, I'll tell you how in a moment. But before that I wanna answer one question that I saw in the chat, and Bridget and Travis, please dive in with me on this one if I don't answer it completely. The question was, What have we learned through the decades on how to stay steadfast despite cyclical
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Janet Stovall, CDE: advance and retreat. I think that was basically it.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: You may have heard me say out there that I believe that diversity, equity, inclusion is cyclical by nature, and there's a scientific term called regression to the mean, which basically says that if there is anything that is kind of going along as normal. If it's what the norm is. If something incredible, extraordinary happens.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: people will always, and systems and everything will always try to go back to what it had before. So let's be real about the world we live in.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: We live in a world that is inequitable
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Janet Stovall, CDE: and in an inequitable world. Equity itself is disruption.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: So anytime you have a movement, a change that seeks to
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Janet Stovall, CDE: up the anti on equity
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Janet Stovall, CDE: as human beings.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: We're gonna try to go back to an inequitable state, especially if there's some of us who benefit more from that inequitable state than others. That is why trying to do this work is always gonna be cyclical. But
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Janet Stovall, CDE: I'm pretty, you know. It's a yes. So why do you get up every morning? Janet? Do this work well, because I am very much hopeful, and I believe that
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Janet Stovall, CDE: once again that leap of faith for me is that diversity still makes things better. I mean biologically, we know that if you, your biological organisms, if they don't diversify, they die. I believe that that's the case. So therefore I think that we are better off today than we were
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Janet Stovall, CDE: before. 2020. For all the wrong reasons, we are better off today. Is there pushback? Absolutely regression to the means gonna try. But there's always been pushback, and we've always come a little bit further. It isn't easy. You don't do this work as is easy. But I do. I am very hopeful. I'm still optimistic
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Janet Stovall, CDE: that we need to keep keep, keep doing the work, and that we're gonna keep advancing. So that's the best advice I can say is, accept that it is cyclical, and that we just have to deal with it as it comes, and we will always be fighting, always climbing up a wall. But it's not. It's disappeared in some ways, but it's I don't believe that rock is gonna always fall back and crush us every time we go up the hill. So that's my advice on that one.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: And I'll look once we get, we have few minutes. I'm gonna answer this next couple of slides, and I'll come. Look at some of the questions. But let's go to the next slide, and I'll just kinda wrap up what we have to say and take your questions. We believe the Dei is not just the right, and the smart thing to do, we believe, is the effective thing to do. And so, therefore, we are constantly evolving solutions, both in our
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Janet Stovall, CDE: habit solutions and our corporate solutions, and in our consulting practices to do exactly what we say. We're gonna interrupt the bias. We're gonna integrate inclusion. And we're gonna invoke systems because we believe that that's how we can deliver on what we believe.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: So if you want to read more about this.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: get your cameras up or out, and we have the link. The QR code on the next slide to show you where to get the white paper.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: and when you do access the white paper, there's also a place there to let us know if you want to be part of the beta, and we're gonna have to get back to you on that, because we have to get see everybody who wants to do it, and kind of figure out what that group is gonna be but if you haven't gotten white paper yet, there it is. So that's kind of the bulk of what we wanted to say. And I know that Emma on our team has been kind of collecting some questions back there in the back.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: So I'm gonna go to the chat. And if you wanna put something in there now to ask me, please just drop it in there. But I'm going back through the chat right now, and I hope Travis and Bridget are doing the same thing. See if there any questions that we need to ask, or, better yet, if you had one, and we didn't get to it. Drop it now, because I'm specifically looking for them.
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Brigid Lynn, Ph.D, MPH: And I I'll jump into just to to touch on what you were mentioning earlier
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Brigid Lynn, Ph.D, MPH: about just
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Brigid Lynn, Ph.D, MPH: continuing the work and the motivation
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Brigid Lynn, Ph.D, MPH: behind it. And I just think
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Brigid Lynn, Ph.D, MPH: for for me, one thing that I think is important is hard things are worth doing. And every day I wake up and I choose where to invest my energy. And working is a huge investment in energy. And one of the things that I really appreciate about my investments at Ni. Is this idea that we are working to improve the workplace.
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Brigid Lynn, Ph.D, MPH: and
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Brigid Lynn, Ph.D, MPH: we spend so much time at work that it is a worthy place to invest.
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Brigid Lynn, Ph.D, MPH: And then, aside from that, as Janet you mentioned in your Ted Talk business is the way to change the, to to give, really embrace and get movement and Dei initiatives. So so for me, that's also what I really try to think about is, where do I want to invest my effort today, and I'm not saying I'm always like Bright at it. But you know, whatever energy I might happen to have.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: Absolutely, I mean, and and thank you for reminding me, the Ted Talk. Actually, when you made that point, we spend a third of our lives at work. Some of us spend more than a third of our lives at work. And so, if you think about it, if you think about how polarized we are. We think about how
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Janet Stovall, CDE: divided our our lives are. This might. The workplaces might be the only place where people have to try to get along with each other whether you like it or not. You gotta work with some people you don't wanna get along with and and and if it. If a company recognizes that there's value, and all those different people coming together, that generative interactivity.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: then that is the best place we have to change this. It just isn't going to happen anywhere else, and the thing that makes me hopeful.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: and then again, with those leaps of faith, is that
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Janet Stovall, CDE: business is going to have business already has an incentive to do this
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Janet Stovall, CDE: because the world has changed. The world is gonna keep changing. They're they're younger generations taking over. They're in the space. There are different ethnicities and races coming together. We know women now are 51% of the workplace. So if even if a company or people did not want to see diversity. Too bad
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Janet Stovall, CDE: it's here. So the question is, you're gonna lean into it. You're gonna leverage it, or will you be gone. So I believe that business, more so than any other entity, has the incentive to do this. There's some stuff we gotta get through, and part of that is thinking about this work
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Janet Stovall, CDE: in a business mindset, which is what we're trying to do here, because that that's the way it gets embedded and gets done
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Janet Stovall, CDE: to
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Janet Stovall, CDE: think
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Janet Stovall, CDE: a.
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Janet Stovall, CDE: I think. I'm looking at our list, and I think I'm gonna get a message in a minute that we should be wrapping soon. So I wanna thank everybody for coming for joining us, and I see lots of stuff in the chat. We'll look at the chat if there's something that I can answer later, I will. But please download the white paper, reach out to us. We are always ready to talk about this, and already always ready to answer your questions and thank you so much, and I'll turn it back to Shelby.
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Brigid Lynn, Ph.D, MPH: Thanks, everybody.
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Shelby Wilburn: Thank you so much team for today's discussion. We appreciate your time and energy that you put into this and everything that you shared. Now for closing. Let us know how analy can help you. We'll put our poll up so you can check that out for a few moments. Just a quick
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Shelby Wilburn: list of announcements that we have our second lead cohort kicked off on April eighteenth. So if you're interested in join a journey and learning more about our new lead program. We'll share information in the link as well as in our follow up. We've had wonderful progress so far for the first cohort, and we're looking forward to how the experience continues to expand. Inside exchange. This is specifically for senior executives. If you enjoy your brain at work, live. We think you'll love the Nli
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Shelby Wilburn: insider program. It's an exclusive opportunity to have round table discussions with our internal leaners, to talk about innovations and different things that are coming up. So if you're interested in that, we'll share the link in the chat as well, and we want to continue to partner with our community. So if your organization is interested in hosting an event with Nli in the future, please check out the link, and we'll share more information about that in our follow up as well.
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Shelby Wilburn: we really want to expand and continue to build positive relationships with our global community. And lastly, the podcast if you enjoy these shows, and you can find them on our podcast your brain at work wherever you listen. So on behalf of our team behind the scenes. And everyone here. Thank you so much for joining us again for another Friday, and we'll see you back here same time next week.